Hi! Curious if you all have any thoughts about this belt buckle. It has the swirling log motif that was banned in 1940s from use per an intertribal agreement after this symbol became associated with nazis and hate.
I am curious how collectors view this motif and if it is considered something positive as it represents a time when that symbol signified “good fortune” in America design or if collectors wishing to wear stay away. Also how it affects value? And what are the other motifs on the buckle design?
I’ve numerous thoughts on your buckle, but am curious if you’re a collector driven by genuine interest or if you’re seeking information with intent to sell it.
As a community, we’re overrun with people requesting our thoughts and opinions who are solely motivated by the monetary value of their pieces. Most of us aren’t comfortable providing appraisals, as we’re a group of passionate individuals who have a love of all things Native American. Current market valuating and appraisals are services offered by professional dealers. Personally, I thoroughly enjoy learning and sharing what knowledge I’ve gleaned, but prefer an honestly built foundation before any assumptions are made.
Hi! Thank you all for responding! We are not looking to sell!! I live in Santa Fe, nm with my girlfriend. She inherited her late grandmothers modest jewlery collection, most of which is southwestern style as her families heritage is almost exclusively in Santa Fe, NM and spans many generations now. Her great aunt was even a chief for Georgia o’keefe at her ghost ranch in abiqu, NM located right outside Santa Fe.
I actually found a video of her aunts bizcochito recipe that was filmed for food network in the 80s. I can add the link on here if anyone is interested.
As for the belt buckle, it just jumped out at us and after a little bit of research we had more questions than when we first began looking. It particularly sparked my interest because I really enjoy trying to identify and learn about older items with potential historical value.
To answer the one question I remember seeing regarding why I thought it was pre 1940. I cannot be sure of this however the “swirling log” motif which strikingly resembles the Nazi symbol. Therefore, from what I read, there was some sort of intertribal agreement to denounce the swirling log motif in the arts. The presence of the symbols make me think it very well could be pre 1940. I’m not sure what that means in terms of significance. My goal of posting about this belt buckle is to help find out some more information regarding style, time frame, meaning of the other motifs, etc. as the belt buckle really did strike me as unique. After looking further, I realized ths material is not .925 silver. However this doesn’t really change anything I mentioned above, I do think it is worth notating for informational purposes.
We have a handful of other pieces we are interested in learning more about as well. Mainly as fun way to learn about her grandmothers jewelry and history. We don’t expect anything she has to be of significant value, but we are curious in general about the southwestern jewelry trade. I understand your message and can also understand your hesitation to offer values that could be mistaken as appraisals. I can assure you that won’t be an issue with myself. Thank you!!
Thank you for sharing a bit of back-story and your connection to the jewelry. I suppose many of us have grown weary due to the number of bots and unappreciative resellers unwilling to perform their own research that we’ve dealt with.
Could you please provide your buckle’s dimensions? I’m curious as to its overall width, height, and what width of belt it would accept. Would you have the ability to weigh it, as well?
I see whirling logs, four leaf clovers, (both symbolizing “good luck”) arrows, and traditional-style stamps used in Navajo work. The latter of which embellish the perimeters of both the buckle and the opening.
Persoanlly, I believe that this is entirely up to the individual. Some can’t wrap their heads around its existence since prehistory, others can’t unsee what Nazi Germany warped the symbol into, and for some, it’s precisely what they’re after.
There exist collectors who specifically seek out pieces that are embellished in a similar fashion to your buckle. It’s an aesthetic popularized by Fred Harvey and driven by the swarm of tourism to the Southwest that began in the 1910’s, boomed in the 20’s and 30’s and fizzled out by the 40’s. Whirling logs, arrows, and thunderbird motifs are heavily present on Fred Harvey era jewelry. I’m not saying that’s definitively what you have, it’s just food for thought.
You may have already read these, but if not, they both contain some great info.
Kim and Pat Messier are highly respected researchers and collectors, and their blog is a wealth of information.
While the intertribal pact you mention was signed by the Navajo Nation, Hopi, Apache, and Tohono O’odham (Papago) cultures in February of 1940, that’s not to say it wasn’t used later.
Kim and Pat point out a resurgence of the symbol in the 70’s by Anglo artists, @RedlandMaggie‘s examples also speak to the symbol’s continued use, and in an even more contemporary sense, artists are beginning to reclaim and utilize the symbol.
All of this said, without provenance, “collected dates”, or known works bearing some sort of resemblance, applying dates can be tricky. Materials, workmanship, overall style, and evident techniques can aid this educated guess, but it’s still a very slippery sloap.
Did you test the material or have that done? I’m curious to know how you arrived at this?
Thank you for sharing all that you have. I’m looking forward to other members’ thoughts concerning your buckle as well as seeing other pieces collected by your girlfriend’s grandmother.
Thanks for the thoughtful and informative response @BIGDOGlittlepark. Technically, this looks like a learning piece by someone just learning and exploring stamp work. From that aspect it could have been made at any time. The style of the stamps themselves do possibly point to an earlier time frame, but once again, the stamps used last for generations, and could be from an old kit inherited from an ancestor, or purchased more recently as part of a pawned toolbox from a pawn shop.
As far as the whirling log motif is concerned, Native American jewelry collectors and enthusiasts tend to understand the difference between the symbol co-opted by the National German Socialist Workers Party in 1920, and the Native American whirling log design, and rightly don’t tend to associate one with the other.
I have multiple pieces of jewelry, pottery and baskets that incorporate the whirling log symbol. Like several in this forum, I associate the use with the historical representation of the four directions, migration of peoples and good luck. It’s completely understandable that many are not able to dissociate the symbol from the hate and horror of the Nazi atrocities. I’m actually frustrated and a bit angry that the symbol was desecrated in this way and refuse to see it in any way other than the positive symbol it was initially intended to be.
You are completely correct, however I am one of those people who will always have trouble disassociating the twisted meaning from its true past. But I’m glad most of you are able to.
