Was wondering if anyone can help in identifying this hallmark (shop mark?). This sterling bear is marked CP which I’m sure is Carmelo “Pat” Patania. But the other stamp - looks like a church with a cross, has me stumped. I know Pat worked with his brother in the Thunderbird Shop until he left and opened his own shop called the Kachina Shop. This is not a Thunderbird Shop mark and I cannot find any other mark that Carmelo used other than the CP. I know I have seen this mark before but of course can not recall
Perhaps also - it may NOT be a Patania piece altho everyone on the internet has attributed this bear to him. Those pieces have the CP stamp but not the other stamp that I am questioning.
The jewelry itself–quality, form, era–is always the tell when considering hallmarks. This is clearly the kind of piece that @Steve turned up (and not anything like actual C Patania work). It’s frustrating that resellers litter the internet with spurious attributions.
@wwwamericana Hi ~ I’ve been curious ever since I saw your name here. Years ago, I purchased a piece of jewelry from an online shop (either Etsy or eBay) with the same unique name as yours. Could that have possibly been you? Thanks. (BTW, I own 3 pin/pendants by Harold Lomayaktewa. The pictograph hallmark on your bear pendant looks fake to me.)
First thing I thought was the hallmark looked like Ruben Saufkie’s, but definitely not his work ( I have one of his rings). Glad Steve enlarged it. Doesn’t look at all like Hopi work. I don’t know why sellers can’t look harder before attributing something to someone. Grrrr.
Thanks, Steve! I had seen all those and that is what got me wondering. The "double hallmark’ and the type of piece they were stamped on. I haven’t really taken a look at Harold Lomayaktewa’s work yet but definitely not a Patania piece. Was watching an interview with his nephew (Frank’s son) that Mark Sublette did with him. He said that after he left the Thunderbird Shop that he rarely was at the workbench.
I agree 100%!!! I have a hard time trusting anything I see, read, or am told. I even question some of the sites that display the hallmark ID’s. I’ve gone so far as to contact the silversmith (whenever that is possible) and send pics asking if it is their work. Some have said yes and told me stories about the piece I am questioning and others have told me “no” that isn’t even their style. It’s kinda like trying to identify a piece of turquoise - unless you picked it up yourself or the maker did - it’s simply an opinion and hopefully especially with people like you, an educated one at that. As I am starting to let go of some of my pieces, I want to be as honest as I can but tell the buyer that it "may’ be a particular type of turquoise made by who I think it “may” be. LOL - makes me think of that song by Bonnie Tyler where she says “it’s a fool’s game.” I always appreciate your input on my inquiries.
Thanks for your thots on the hallmark, Patina! I don’t know if it was me or not. I’ve had an ebay shop since ebay since it first started - that was back when you could print all of ebay out in a few pages and sit down and look it over. There were no pictures. Things have changed thru the years. I do very little there now. I also have a couple Etsy stores but sell other type of items (mainly Gma’s china pieces that I pick up). I am working on one called TeePeeSmokeGallery but it is still in it’s infancy. As far as I can remember, I have only sold one pendant years ago (maybe 10) on ebay and that was a turquoise and coral piece - at least that’s all I can recall. Now I’ve hit my 70’s and it’s time to pass it on so I am trying to gather as much info I can on my pieces so that I can let them go. Shoot me a pic of what you bought and I will tell you if that was me or not.
Thanks, Z’cat! I know it is frustrating that they attribute a XX to a particular silversmith but then again sometimes it starts me on the hunt on who it could be and who it is not. And YES it is a cute bear and will occasionally wear it - nobody sees my bear backside anyway (LOL).
That’s me! After I wrote the previous comment, I remembered I sold a ring, a mosaic bracelet, a watch with turquoise tips, and a pin. 2019 that was quite a while ago. Hopefully, you are still happy with the ring.
Nice, i’m curious! I’m starting to think that it’s a somewhat regular thing to appear ((unmarked) gold details soldered(?) to silver). I own 2 items like that: one sterling cuff with gold bezels (only stamped for sterling) and a sterling bracelet with 12K gold details, which the seller assumed was gold plating (that one was stamped for sterling plus 1/20 12KG.F., which i believe means that 1/20th of the bracelet’s total weight consists of 12K gold)
