I’ve been waffling about whether or not to post this. The photos & info are from a public group on NA jewelry. The OP inquired whether this ring could be NA made and a possible date range. My opinion, which I unfortunately offered, is that it doesn’t necessarily look NA made to me. More artisan looking, imo. I made no comment about age. A well-respected member of their group commented that the ring is absolutely Native American and most likely 1930s. Another person commented it looks like coin silver & gave a date range of 1900 - 1930. Please help me to understand what key elements I overlooked in my assessment of this ring? I’m apparently waaaay off on this one. (My guess on the date range is 1970s) Thanks!
Can’t help unfortunately (but if you’d twist my arm i would also guess somewhere around the 1970s).
What i do wonder is if the upper cab(s) on the second photo would be a Persian style high dome cut (which i’ve seen mentioned a couple of times here on the forum)
What about it made you think artisan made versus Native?
@Bluegreen, Bisbee can have that high dome cut also, but I don’t know what this is. I have a somewhat similar Navajo made ring without the silver swoops and drops on the side that has high domed stones that are Bisbee.
I love these stoplight rings. One element I would focus on if mainly concerned about dating would be the technique used to split the shank. This one looks sawn; the cuts look very refined and the corners too acute and tight to have been cut with a chisel, in my opinion. Also, I’m wondering about the long sweeping arcs at 3 and 9 o’clock, those look cast, to me. @mmrogers, what do you think?
Here is a ca. 1920 split shank ring. One can easily make out tool marks on the split shank. The above example looks much too refined for a guesstimate of 1900, in my opinion. For a ring of that supposed age, one would want to see more wear on the bezels, as well.
For me, the overall design doesn’t look particularly Native American. For example, those long crescent elements on each side. And, that “stoplight” design with the turquoise. The raindrops don’t look all that well made to me, either. And, the band. Is that a good example of a 1900-1930 ring band? IDK, was this design & elements commonly used in 1930s NA jewelry?
Thank you so much for posting this explanation. The arrows were helpful, too. I’m bothered with myself that I may have missed the mark, by a longshot, on this ring. It didn’t help, either, that someone replied to me that, “You have a lot more learning to do.”
Maybe not, @Patina. You know as well as any of us that it’s impossible to say with certainty. My gut tells me that the ring you shared is much later than some of those dates, but that doesn’t mean anything to anyone else. I feel that it would be impossible to say that it was crafted by a Navajo or artisan, without some provenance, at least. @Stracci could whip one of these up in no time!
We all do. Anyone that thinks otherwise should just talk to themselves, because no one else wants to hear it and eventually all quit listening.
Personally, I’m on board with you in thinking that it’s much later than the “well-respected member” believes it to be. If they’re the one that was so rude to you, they would instantly lose any standing they had with me, for certain.
I see what you were saying. I saw the same ring on facebook, (I am not on Facebook, my husband is, and I happened to look this morning although I haven’t for weeks) and my first thought was that it was Native American made, but not that old. It doesn’t look very worn. I will say that one of the people that commented that the ring is Native is one of the admins of the site.
My ring is most definitely in the stoplight style. I don’t know the age of mine but I bought it from a place that only sold Native American pawn (now closed of course). I would guess 70s for mine.
Oh, no. The person who made that reply to me was not the well-respected member of their group. However, there’re a lot of comments on their thread but no one explained why they consider the ring to be that old or Native American made. I posted it here because I knew our very knowledgeable & well respected Members would provide detailed info, and help to educate me.
And I will say that if someone had asked me about it I would have said that I think it looks Native made, but there is no way of knowing for sure without a hallmark or having been bought from a reputable dealer. And I don’t know why on Facebook people have to be so rude. That’s partly why I haven’t joined because I’m afraid I’d be snarky back. I imagine you know way more than most of the people that comment on that site.
I am with you that it doesn’t look old, and I see your points on it possibly not being native made.
I love the stoplight rings too, have sold a few in the distant past that I wish I hadn’t. I can see why there’d be at least some healthy debate over the FB one’s age; for one thing those pics were at best half decent when looking for wear. I’m sorry you were met with rudeness.
Agree with @Ravenscry. I wouldn’t personally date this before 1930. Jeweler coping saw was used to expertly cut out the back plate, the side appliqués are a very nice touch and look to be fabricated from filed 1/2 round and sterling sheet. Definitely has some apparent age to it, but the nature of the construction itself looks later, maybe late 30s to 50s or so. Anyone who thinks they can discern age or tribal affiliation (if any) without solid provenance probably shouldn’t be holding themselves out as an expert, or maybe at all.
ETA: I’d strongly lean artisan on this one. Native silversmiths weren’t the only smiths working in this style in the American West. My first teacher in Tucson was a young man a bit older than I who had learned traditional silversmithing from his non-Native father - 30s.40’s, 50’s style work.
The appliqués in particular have a more European than Native aesthetic. This could have easily been made by a non-native smith from Tucson, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Taos, or even LA.
Thanks for the additional info Ziacat!
The way i (think i) understand it is that basically any stone with enough body could receive a high dome cut, but that it is a technique that apparently is/was mostly done by Persian cutters.
I don’t know about that, Chic, I was just pointing out what I seek when looking for myself. I’ve a tendency (bad habit) to focus and hone in on how I feel a piece was made before I take into consideration anything else. Your kind words are very much appreciated.
Thank you for the insight, Mike! This is easy to make out after reading your, naturally, thorough analysis.
Thanks @Ravenscry & @mmrogers for your analyses. I too have more to learn and seem to be in good company.
And we need to keep in mind @Patina , one of us could fabricate any era piece if we chose to. Use early methods (Aaron), add some provenance and early design elements (Mike) and Shazam! A c1900s piece.
Thank you everyone for kindly sharing your knowledge, expertise, and photos on this thread. I’ve certainly learned from it all (which was my intention). It’s helped me to feel better, too. Thanks again, I appreciate all of you.
