Maybe we should arm wrestle sometime 
5 Likes
“We’re all at the disadvantage of not being able to see and handle and have full info.“
All kidding aside, you‘re absolutely right about this.
5 Likes
If rematch involves a brewski, I am in. 
5 Likes
You two contribute so much to this forum. Your passion is obvious. I always enjoy hearing thoughts and opinions from both of you.
Also, please let me know where you will be arm wrestling. I would be happy to hold on to your jewelry until you’re finished. 
13 Likes
I got an extensive reply from Browns, which I’ll try to summarize for you.
First about their bracelet
- It was not sold but returned to its previous owner in Santa Fe, a very experienced trader & expert in vintage NA jewelry.
- Many early silversmiths have used exactly this cut and setting - contour cut, nugget cut, natural stone cut - as early as the 1920s. Like Allen Pooyouma, Horace Iule, Vidal Aragon, Juan Calavaza, Morris Robinson, Lambert Homer and many more. Nugget cut was popular in the 60’s and 70’s, but also in the earlier era.
- The carinated silver was one more confirmation for how it was listed.
- Relatives of the famous Tom Burnside have clearly identified the hallmark as his.
- “Our family has been in the turquoise business since the mid 1930’s. We personally have mined, sold and cut thousands of pounds to Morenci turquoise and other turquoise over many years.”
- This bracelet is clearly from the Tom Burnside who died in 1957.
Second about the Etsy bracelet which was the starting point of the discussion.
The bracelet you showed from Etsy, is obviously a fake. The hallmark on it is crisp and sharp, where the one on our TB is not. Not the same hallmark. […] Take care. Nila Brown
4 Likes
3 Likes
Right on @mmrogers 
What would be interesting is to X-ray the silver for impurities. Sometimes that can be an indication of production. The wire looks mass produced. Not sure how long it’s been in production and not sure of the local availability to the silversmiths in the middle of nowhere.
I see in the video it looks like scraps are being melted.
2 Likes
I am not sure which bracelet we are talking about.
Guess Michael talks about Browns’, and Steve talks about the one on Etsy?!
The Etsy one is fake, I see consensus here.
1 Like
Constructively, I think a way to authenticate or alternatively disallow the hallmark would be to find a piece with a complete and documented paper trail and provenance, and compare microscopically the impressions of the commercially available machinist stamps used in marking the piece for which there is a strong oral tradition, but no fully documented paper trail.
A positive microscopic comparison of the stamp impressions would put to rest any doubts.
3 Likes
Best idea yet @mmrogers. Now you just need to find a true authenticated piece (and hope he didn’t have to replace the stamp(s) at some point.
4 Likes
Navajo tool kits are typically pretty spare. They’re assembled of the most important, selected and most trusted tools and templates with utility and mobility in mind. Of course the odds are not absolutely 100% that the tools used would be the same over decades, but in my experience its pretty darned close to that number.
2 Likes
A couple decades ago my hubby and I went to an exhibit at the Heard Museum, and I forgot I have this book from the exhibition.
Here are a few Dan Simplicio pieces that were at the exhibit.
I also found another book (forgot I had it too) published by the NM mag (very good little book on turquoise and Native American jewelry). It has these pics of cuffs made in the 20’s with what looks to me like carinated silver on the sides (middle of top pic, right on bottom pic).
7 Likes
Thanks for posting, @Ziacat . Triangle wire (carinated silver) has been around for a very long time, and can be made from practically any silver alloy. @StevesTrail had an interesting suggestion in terms of analysis of the metals content. Any combination of scientific methods for independent authentication is infinitely better than oral histories or conjecture.
4 Likes
@Ziacat, thank you for sharing this. I’ve got a copy of this catalogue and it’s a wonderful reference! Showcasing casting work by Horace Iule and Juan de Dios, inlay by Dishta, as well as (obviously) Dan Simplicio’s craft.
Regards,
Aaron
5 Likes
It was so cool to see that stuff at the exhibit!! I have a buckle that my dad bought in 1970 that the seller wrote down, and told him it was Dan Simplicio, but since I’ve learned more on here I’m definitely having my doubts, even though I thought I had researched it quite a bit. I’m wondering now if it’s his nephew Juan Calavaza. I’ll post again it sometime with better pics, and you guys can all weigh in!
5 Likes
The alphabet pictured by @Steve is a font of commercially made stamp sets that dates back to the Civil War. Proof is found on Confederate capture rifles. The capital letters T, Q, Z, are a few that are stamped in the wood in front of the butt plate depending upon where they were reconditioned for reuse.
This is my 1863 US Springfield 1864 (Type II) with the “T” for Richmond, VA.
4 Likes
Actually have some of these very stamps in my toolbox @Steve . Bought them as blanks for repurposing to handmade stamps down the road.
3 Likes
@Ziacat, What a treat to attend that exhibit. I also have the catalog, would have loved to have seen everything in person!!! Your parents had great taste, that evidently rubbed off on you! I’d love to see your Dad’s Dan Simplicio buckle…have you posted it before? I have several Dan Simplicio pieces that I love and had a couple unmarked buckles that I’m wondering might have been Dan’s (or his uncle and teacher, Juan Dedios?). No way to tell with certainty, but the individual we purchased them from, along with the DS marked pieces, attended the Gallop ceremonial for years back in the 50’s and bought great pieces! They were also neighbors of Fred Peshlakai when he had his shop in Los Angelas! Wish they were my relatives😄
4 Likes
It was pretty darn cool! We didn’t plan it; fortunately the exhibit was going on the summer we decided to visit the Heard.
I’m doubting it’s a Simplicio piece now. I think the store was well meaning, but wrong. However it was the piece of jewelry that started me on my journey. I have no recollection of the purchase, because I was about 6 
Dad talked about and wore it a lot, so mom gave it me. I’ll post pics tomorrow. I’m out of town today.
5 Likes