Fred Harvey has entertained the chat.
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Continuing the discussion from AMAZING cuff and ring, need help with hallmark:
Did you try asking on the Facebook site that was suggested? Looking back through this thread, it appears that we don’t have an answer to whom this hallmark belongs.
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@TAH to match your cuff
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I like the cuff better…way better
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Thanks LL. I do not own the cuff. Just found it on the internet and thought of this thread. 
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Well I was all excited for you! It’s a wild cuff
This hallmark, which I forwarded to americanindan, is on a extraordinary ring I inherited. The pic from americanindian: it’s from my ring. Bought by my dad in 1978 in Santa Fe, as Navajo. Crazy enough? It was not really for sale, but my dad is persuasive. The ring is extremely well made, has a number eight turquoise. I can’t believe after so many years searching finally the same hallmark popped up! Still a mystery.
Can’t help but notice there is a really pretty big difference in style regarding my robust Navajo ring and the intricate (small) snake thingies weaving over very large stones. Same hallmark but very different build? There is no snake reference on my ring. Yet snakes very deliberatly snaking over enormous stones? And here is a more traditional built ring of which I exactly know when it was bought and where. I am very confused. These items with this hallmark don’t seem to belong together? Very different made. What is going on here?
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Not saying this is the case here, but as a serious collector and appreciator of Native American jewelry, its important for you to know that false attribution, deliberately and otherwise is rampant in the Native American arts and crafts resale world, @KarenM.
Sadly it is often the rule rather than the exception, and attempting to make heads or tails of attribution for a given piece offered in the resale market can be frustrating, and confusing to say the least.
What is factual and nearly universally true is that with statistically rare exceptions nearly 100% of what is offered has no real paper trail, or provable chain of custody which establishes a factual relationship between the piece being offered, and the putative original maker of that particual piece.
Like the fine art world, where Rembrant artworks are discovered in someone’s attic, oftentimes the only real clues to establish true authenticity lie in the nature of the work itself. Subtleties in the fashioning and tooling compared to known authentic pieces by a particular artist are often the only way to authenticate works with no established or provable chain of custody.
As with any other hand created art form, what one hand can create, another hand can attempt to copy, and sometimes the copies are very good. The real differences show up in minute details like the cadence and direction of the saw work left as tool mark impressions, the stamps a particular artists uses are typically hand made, and their impressions are as unique as a fingerprint. Another craftsperson can copy a tooling stamp for the look, but subtleties in the impressions made will give the copies away.
Hall mark stamps are easy to copy and reproduce. Not only has fiber laser engraving opened the door to creating authentic looking hallmarks on already finished pieces years or decades old, now one can upload a photographic image of a stamp (hallmark or otherwise) to an Amazon vendor, and have a ‘perfect’ copy of that hallmark or design stamp show up the mail in just a few days for $22 per custom stamp.
While there are a few federal enforcement actions currently underway and in the courts. it seems that the likelihood of a vendor being nabbed for misrepresentation are about the same as getting randomly struck with a bolt of lightning, and believe me, resale vendors know this!
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Thank you for your elaborate and very informative answer. My dad bought this ring in a trading post in Santa Fe in 1978. It is so sad hallmarks are faked. I am not naieve as to why, but it is just utterly respectless. I contacted Amerindian about the hallmark on my ring, including many pictures of the ring itself in 2017. If it is even a hallmark. And it has been on their site as an unidentified hallmark since then. I will never sell my ring, it will be kept in the family.
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Bravo, your attention to detail and willingness to follow up with vendors, holding them to account is both admirable, and all too rare.
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My dad started collecting when we we’re living in Berkely during the seventies. Not just jewelry. I am looking forward to share photo’s of the pottery my parents have and a stunning large Yei tapestry. My dad visited the Southwest often for his work and kept collecting. And buying books to educate himself. My parents have distributed their jewelry amongst us kids and grandkids, for the joy of sharing and forwarding what they have always worn so now we can wear them. Mostly Navajo, Hopi and Zuni. And a few NW Pacific.
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That background and family history is amazing. Thank you for sharing it. Really paints a clear picture of your own personal, and family’s deep involvement with Native American jewelry and art forms.
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My dad was a nucleair physics scientist. If something peeked his interest he did research: buy every book, visit every location, talk to artists and keep that up for years and years. He holds a great balance between curiousity, sceptisism and respect. He did deep dives before AI did it for us.
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I’ll bet he knew my father in law. Who worked at Los Alamos, Sandia, the Nevada Test Site and served as an adminstrator for EG&G, Bechtel and NEST. Small world.
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Ha! Small world indeed! That is a crazy coincedence!!
Your craftmanship and knowledge as a jewelrysmith yourself (I have looked you up by now, no surprise): would it be rude to ask you if I could send you pics or maybe a small vid through a magnifying glass of one of the LMB marked pieces so you could pour your experienced eye on it? I do not want to bother you.
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Not at all. You can DM me here if you like.
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