An old timer from Globe Az 😊

[Bisquitlips]

@Ziacat

I have not come across a Steve Guerro yet, and I have looked (due to researching my cross pendant). Sellers often get things wrong (although I imagine you know this). I couldn’t find anything with the other spelling.

I am not on Facebook, but if you are maybe you could see if any of the Guerro family are and contact them to see if there is a Steve.

That’s a great idea Zia! Thank you!

[Steve]

On more than a few earlier discussions here the term Ceremonial Kingman has been used.

Any history or info about the origin of this in your memory banks?

https://forum.turquoisepeople.com/search?q=ceremonial%20kingman%20order%3Alatest

[Bisquitlips]

I’m very skeptical, even sardonic about names like “Ceremonial” Kingman. I’ve not heard of it. Some names seem to be descriptive and used to make some turquoise seem special for sale purposes, which flips a booger on me.

Ask the esteemed Native American silversmiths or well-known and respected NA jewelers. If they don’t know these names, then I wouldn’t use them in my vocabulary describing turquoise unless you want to lose their respect.

A fate worse than death…

[chamekke]

“Ceremonial” Kingman reminds me of a running joke in my family around Tuscan chicken. If a restaurant is selling a basic chicken sandwich, and there really isn’t any distinctive way to describe it, the temptation is to just stick the word “Tuscan” in front. It’s really just flavour text that gets added on because someone thought calling it a “chicken sandwich” sounded too boring. So now we say “Tuscan!” every time we see some weird use of flavour text. Like “Ceremonial Kingman”! Calling it Tuscan Kingman might make about as much sense.

P.S. A lot of matcha (Japanese powdered green tea) is sold to the public as “ceremonial” these days. That designation only means it’s good enough to enjoy prepared with hot water alone, the way it’s always consumed in Japanese tea ceremony. In contradistinction, the other type – “culinary-grade” matcha – is average-quality matcha that would normally not be drunk on its own, but is still perfect for enjoying as an ingredient in matcha lattes and other drinks or baked goods. Well, the tea world is now experiencing a shortage of ceremonial matcha, evidently because westerners are buying it to use in their lattes … which is a bit frustrating when you are a tea student and can’t get the traditional stuff! So the word “ceremonial” as a descriptor for matcha makes me twitch a little bit, both because tea-ceremony people don’t use that term (I am one myself), but also because it gives people the mistaken idea that any other type of matcha must be rubbish. And that’s another thing the term “Ceremonial Kingman” reminds me of.

[StevesTrail]

Sounds like “healing” stones. The only thing I’ve ever seen them heal is the sellers bank account.

[Ziacat]

It’s my understanding that Kingman mines itself has used the term “Ceremonial” to describe some stones. This may be very annoying, but I am less bothered by a company choosing to call their own product a descriptive name, than just some individual seller. Apparently some early owners of Fox Mine did this also. I also learned recently on this forum by a member who is a miner and co - author of Turquoise in America, that some of the different names of Royston turquoise are legit in that they are specific claims/diggings (Royston is the name of the mining district, not a certain mine). So, for example, Montezuma Royston, is not the same thing as Ceremonial Kingman.

But I don’t like the description “Ceremonial Turquoise” either. Seems cheesy.

[Bisquitlips]

@chamekke

P.S. A lot of matcha (Japanese powdered green tea) is sold to the public…

This entire post was an education to me. Thanks for taking the time!

[Bisquitlips]

@Ziacat

It’s my understanding that Kingman mines itself has used the term “Ceremonial” to describe some stones.

I guess my question to the mine owners would “How is this turquoise ceremonial?”.

I can’t imagine the answer.

[KevinH]

Any luck finding out who the maker is? I have a small collection of cuffs, bolos, and belt buckles with the SG maker mark. LW Hardy was my grandfather and he gave these to my mother in the late 70’s. They’ve been sitting in a box for years and I’m just trying to find out a little more info about them.

Here’s a couple of the pieces

[Patina]

@KevinH Hi & Welcome. Those are nice turquoise pieces especially the bolo tie, imo. Can you please post a clear photo showing the back of each piece. It’s always important to see the reverse, including hallmarks or any markings. Thanks.

[KevinH]

Here’s the back of the watch and bolo tie

[Patina]

@KevinH I just checked my Bille Hougart’s 3rd edition book “Native American and Southwestern Silver Hallmarks” There are only 2 “SG” listings and, unfortunately, neither match the hallmark in these photos. Sorry I couldn’t be of more assistance. Hopefully, others will chime in with some information.

[Bmpdvm]

I’m sure you’re referring to the SG signed cuff posted by @Bisquitlips, purchased from your grandfather’s estate. He can likely tell you a lot about LW Hardy and his turquoise mining company. Looks like Hardy had multiple pieces made by this “SG”, and high end pieces at that! That waterweb turquoise with the chunky pyrite in the bolo is just gorgeous. Maybe the same turquoise used in Richard’s cuff??? Hard to believe a maker of this caliber is not known.

[Bisquitlips]

I am so late to this party. My apologies.

I have never definitively identified who SG truly is. Obviously Mr. Hardy liked his work.

My life has been a rocket sled complete with black eyes for the last 8 months so I haven’t been online much.

I’ll circle back soon, hopefully.