Silver officially over $50 this this morning - headed higher

Value Opinions
102

I was going to share my thoughts with @Bluegreen concerning this, but Mike brings up a great point.

Contemporary master Navajo silversmiths, like Perry Shorty and Ernie Lister, are of very few (that I am aware of) that continue to work in the old ways. Melting down scrap silver and coins into ingots, forging the ingots, rolling them into sheet, or drawing them into wire, hammering, annealing, more hammering and more annealing, repoussé and stamp embellishment, the setting of stones, and the finishing of the work with a high polish, all done in the traditional manner. Ernie was taught by old Navajo smiths and medicine men that learned from First Phase smiths. His story in particular is a colorful one steeped in history. However, his pieces, along with Perry’s, fetch an absolute premium. Their work has dedicated followers, both here and abroad, especially in Japan, and the price of their work reflects the process.

Another fact is that people, in general, are lazy. Purchasing raw materials is far easier than making it. So, currently, it’s either pay dearly for raw materials, or learn how to hammer silver and bust up your hands, and charge a higher price.

Ernie has mentioned that he thinks those who work silver fit in one of the following three categories.

  • The fabricator, who purchases sterling sheet and cabs, solders the silver together and places a stone.
  • The caster, who carves a mold, pours molten silver, forms it and cleans it up.
  • The silversmith, who goes about his work the way it has always been done, as he does.

I’m not saying I completely agree, but it is interesting to hear his thoughts concerning it. He’s very traditional, and I deeply respect that. At the same time, I also respect all Native American artists who have, over generations, overcome countless odds and continue to battle the fluctuations of both supply/demand and the volatility of the market to bring beautiful pieces of unique art to the world.

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103

All great points. However, I listened to an interview with Mr. Lister, and as he talked about this, my only thought was that I doubt the Hopi artists and those who work with Tufa would agree with him. But maybe I misunderstood.

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104

I’m sure they wouldn’t, nor would anyone crafting jewelry by any other means than Mr. Lister does. As I mentioned, I don’t necessarily agree about the segregation of processes, I just found his take interesting.

It will definitely be interesting to see how this all shakes out over time.

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105

Thanks for yet another very informative post @Ravenscry . And i very much share your view. The more plastic our world gets, the more appreciation i start to have for the old fashioned ways. Besides the masters that you mentioned i think Harrison Jim is also of that tradition. I saw a long video of him creating a great bracelet seemingly out of nothing. Most of the video was him endlessly pounding a silver ingot into shape. I found it truly impressive.

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106

I’m not sure lazy would characterize those that don’t create by the old methods. The old methods have been supplemented by new and more efficient methods. One’s budget plays a part in the creation process as well. Someone that needs to get items to market to live will find it more convenient to purchase ready made sheet, etc. I personally enjoy the total process but I don’t have to make a living at it.

On a related note, I’ve sketched out a couple belt buckles to make use of your tufa stone. I want to cast in coin silver and of course I’m low on coin. So I’ll take my time, refine the design, ready the stone and then to carving. No hurry. Then the casting, cutting the turquoise. .. Long before this point I’d have starved. :grin:

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107

I should have clarified, Steve. I simply meant in general, not strictly speaking to crafting jewelry. The average person takes the path of least resistance, the ideal that “comfort kills” is subscribed to by few in compared to the masses. Personally, I don’t believe that anyone crafting jewelry is lazy, I was just pointing out the differences in approaches. I understand your points and agree, the romanticized process isn’t an efficient one, that’s for certain.

I wholeheartedly agree!

Well now, this is intriguing! And a bit of a tease. :angry:

:laughing:

You would have, too! I think it’s awesome that you’ve started the process! I’m very much looking forward to seeing updates on this! :+1:

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108

Bottom line as a practical matter is with few notable extremely well paid exceptions, 99.9% of Native silversmiths fabricate from milled sheet and wire, rather than attempting to reprocess materials into finished product because it makes no economic sense to spend 5X the time to melt scrap into to ingot ,and then pound and mill ingot into sheet and wire to make exactly the same item they can fabricate from silver purchased at the supply house in a fraction of the time.

The notion than someone can sit in a hogan melting coins and pounding away on a hunk of silver for three days by lantern light to make a ring or bracelet for what most people are willing to pay is hopelessly unrealistic. Successfully fabricating jewelry independently by hand is tough, demanding, gritty work requiring tremendous levels of skill, copious amounts of time, and real dedication to craft. It’s a a very tough way to make a living, and my hat is off to every artisan who keeps the lights on and puts food on the table that way.

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109

I agree, Mike, completely. I was simply sharing Ernie Lister’s comments. Personally, I don’t agree with his “tier-like” classification of the different approaches.

Mine is, as well. Regardless of the approach, there is no guarantee of a paycheck; and few possess that kind of courage. :+1:

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110

The finest craftsmen there are, are the absolute wizards that walk in the door armed with a little tackle box full of hand tools, brass and copper templates, a Prestolite plumbers torch, sit down at a bench and turn raw milled silver into absolute creative magic. One cant really understand the nature of craft or the level of skill involved until you’ve watched these guys at work, and I can tell you it is absolutely humbling and awe inspiring.

This isn’t by any means ‘wisdom’:

  • The fabricator, who purchases sterling sheet and cabs, solders the silver together and places a stone.

  • The caster, who carves a mold, pours molten silver, forms it and cleans it up.

  • The silversmith, who goes about his work the way it has always been done, as he does.

What it is, is a complete load of self aggrandizing nonsense. The guy’s really full of himself.

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111

I also enjoy his work! However, he does work in other forms. I nearly bought one of his cuffs at Twin Rocks Trading Post last spring, and it was tufa cast. I ended up with a Derrick Gordon cuff, but it was a tough choice (and I may still get the Harrison Jim cuff eventually :grin:).

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112

And the market is off to a $73 per ounce start.

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114

I tried to test my skill, or lack of…and post a video without having to click the link. To no avail.

With regards to this video…can people really be this daft? https://x.com/WallStreetMav/status/2004979179989991887?s=20

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115

Yep. They sure can be. I came up with a slogan on a t-shirt to give away:

NO CURE FOR STUPID…but there is a cost.

My plan was to give them away until I realized I would go broke in just a couple days.

The worst part is it looks like he is holding either a 100 gram or a 5 ounce bar.

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116

Ha! I thought of this thread today. I was watching Columbo (Peter Faulk). The murderer/jeweler was advising Columbo against buying Mrs. Columbo a sterling anniversary gift. He essentially said sterling was too cheap at only $4 an ounce. That was in the 70’s I believe.

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117

That was totally insane. I cannot believe that every single person chose a candy bar, especially from a stranger. I wish I had been there I’d have gone by multiple times. :joy:

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118

Of course we have to assume (and we know what that means) that it wasn’t a staged event made for the internet. I’m more inclined to go with that thought.

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119

That’s exactly what my hubby said.

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120

Haha! I was watching that too!

Actually that episode was from 1991.

Laughed my a$$ off😋

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121

People often don’t think about the resale value of items. They only think in terms of what they like or don’t like. Or what is in fashion now.
I have been to estate sales and auctions where I have seen some crazy things. Granted these are typically very small sales, in very small towns.
My favorite was two people arguing about whether or not anyone would purchase an ugly gold and diamond ring for more than $25.

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122

Holy Mackerel, no one took the silver bar?!! Did they think it was a fake? Sheesh. Funny to watch, though. My husband, who was listening to the video, said he would take the chocolate.:woman_facepalming::roll_eyes:.

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